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Is Fourth Avenue Dangerous for Pedestrians?

What do you think about crossing the six-lane avenue?

Is Fourth Avenue more dangerous for pedestrians than other avenues in Park Slope? 

We reported on Monday that Tri-State Transportation Campaign, a non-profit, (tied with Avenue U and Eastern Parkway) with four fatalities since 2008.

What do you think? Is the six-lane speedway really dangerous for pedestrians? Make sure to vote in the poll below. Tell us your experience in the comments section below. 

Rick Levine March 14, 2012 at 04:00 PM
Where is the NYPD? Speed limit is 30, but cars go 60!!!!
Michael March 14, 2012 at 04:31 PM
I drive 4th Ave every morning. The problem is the people run across the ave. against the light. In the dark and have on dark jackets and pants. They are asking to get hit. And than you have the few that like to ride bikes with no lights and dark jackets so you cant see them.
Peter March 14, 2012 at 05:11 PM
4th avenue, as designed, encourages drivers to speed. It needs some serious traffic calming.
Rick Levine March 14, 2012 at 05:32 PM
Yes, Michael. Instead of enforcing the existing speed limit and installing traffic calming, let's pass a law requiring New Yorkers to wear reflective jackets and light-colored pants.
Janet March 14, 2012 at 06:14 PM
Some of the crossings now have the "countdown to 'DON'T WALK'" signs, which are a big improvement.
Patti March 14, 2012 at 07:22 PM
If the police focused on giving speeding tickets - drivers would get the message - 40+ you get a speeding ticket. That might help make it not as dangerous to pedestrians. They too have to follow the rules!
Michael March 15, 2012 at 11:21 AM
no they should also cross with the light. and you are correct some drivers speed
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 01:23 PM
That is of course not at all what Michael said.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 01:26 PM
I agree with Rick and Peter that there needs to be a police presence to as Peter says create traffic calming. When pedestrians are being hit enforcment does need to be enacted. Hmm, I wonder if that might apply in any other circumstances? In any other place? Like say Prospect Park? Nah that's not acceptable is it?
Johnson March 15, 2012 at 02:16 PM
Rick, the police gave out almost 200 tickets to cyclists in January in Prospect Park. Can you honestly claim there's no enforcement there? They gave out fewer than 30 speeding tickets to drivers in the entire precinct. I'd say that the 78th is, in fact, enacting a high level of enforcement in the Park in response to pedestrian accidents.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 03:00 PM
My comment was in response to those two complaining about police enforcing the rules in the park. I am quite happy with what the police are doing in the park.
Johnson March 15, 2012 at 03:11 PM
Okay. So if the police have limited resources and can only station police in one place at one time, you think they should be in the park instead of ticketing drivers? Because they do have to make that choice.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 04:35 PM
Are you going to be the one to determine who suffers the risk? It's terrible that four people were killed over four years but it's also terrible that four people were gravely injured in the park in a couple of months. Do you want to tell their families that you couldn't afford to protect them? What nonsense.
Johnson March 15, 2012 at 04:40 PM
One person is killed on NYC streets every 2.5 days on average. Do you want to tell their families that you couldn't afford to protect them because the NYPD is ticketing cyclists in a park? What nonsense. What most people are asking for is not either/or but balance. Enforce the laws in the park, but not at the expense of stationing police at dangerous intersections outside of the park. Rick, you hate bikes. Full stop. It clouds your judgment on all discussions of traffic safety. Be honest and just admit it.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 05:00 PM
All I have said over and over is that there shouldn't be a choice between the two. But you are clouded by your bias-anti car and pro bike. (and I add again for the umpteenth time that I am for banning cars from the park). But yes I am against a certain segment of the biking community. And I am very disgusted by numerous people who are absolutely dismissive of any effort to address the serious danger that exists in the park. In numerous comments on all these threads there is not even an acknowlegemnet that there is a serious issue that needs to be addressed in the park. Fortunately though the park has finally acknowledged that there is a big problem. It is not a zero sum issue. I find this insensitivity toward park injuries incredibly distasteful.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 05:03 PM
You yourself said that due to limited resources the police should police the streets and not the park. So you get to determine this triage?
Johnson March 15, 2012 at 05:29 PM
On an individual level ONE police officer can not be in two places at once. But institutionally, the police can assign officers based on the threat and danger. No, I don't get to determine anything. Only you do.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 05:50 PM
And apparently they have. Four grave injuries in a period of a couple of months. I think that would qualify as an epidemic. And as the weather gets good again I fear there will be more. As for hating bikes- no I don't. I hate a segment of bikers. And I have heard many bikers express that same hate. And lots of pedestrians. My wife is a biker who moved here from Boston. She like doing 250 mile rides for charity. She defended the park bikers until she spent some time in the park. We go to the park daily and encounter lots of aggressive bikers with a huge sense of entitlement. They constantly yell at walkers joggers little kids. I have seen bikers yell at mothers crossing the road with toddlers in hand. I saw a biker knock down a little boy on a bike and then act put upon that he had to stop and attend to him. These platoons have been given free reign for sibling that they have a huge sense of entitlement. And that attitude has led to these tragic accidents. And then with that same mindset I see people on these Patch threads dismiss this serious issue, express no concern for these victims and try to assign blame to everything but who and what is to blame.
Johnson March 15, 2012 at 06:08 PM
Epidemic? The park has something like 7 or 8 million visitors per year. Four injuries, however horrific and serious, is not an epidemic. Dial it back a bit, pal.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 06:23 PM
Four people with grave injuries in two months? You're right. No big deal.
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 06:25 PM
A perfect example of the casual dismissal.
tr March 15, 2012 at 07:25 PM
The double parking on fourth avenue is ridiculous. I see it on practically every block. Even the police constantly double park in front of their station house. I never see anyone ticketed for that. It creates bottlenecks and lots of frustration for drivers. This is one the reasons they speed down the avenue
Johnson March 15, 2012 at 09:15 PM
Jeez, you're amazing. The accidents are horrible, terrible, awful and quite serious. The NYPD should no doubt do everything it can to prevent them from happening again. But should they do that at the expense of preventing accidents outside the park? Your insistence that the NYPD go all in on Prospect Park means that they can't be elsewhere. You are the one casually dismissing accidents and crimes that kill hundreds of your fellow New Yorkers per year. But when you use words like "epidemic," I guess any suggestion that you tone it down a bit sounds like a dismissal. Have fun in the park!
Johnson March 15, 2012 at 09:16 PM
Not what I said. You said "epidemic." Are four cases of a disease out of 8 million people an epidemic?
Rick Oshea March 15, 2012 at 11:05 PM
You're right Johnson. It's either the park or an entire city of 8 million people.
tom murphy March 18, 2012 at 06:44 PM
I hope everyone realizes that a row of parked cars against the curb is the pedestrians' best defense against passing cars. It creates 'friction' on the traveled way. It does; you can look it up in any road safety manual. Even better is angled-parking. That really makes drivers cautious. My favorite though is double-parking. It slows all the speeders passing on the right and directs all the traffic away from the sidewalk. It's great and no one recognizes its value.
Peter March 18, 2012 at 07:06 PM
Enforcement is sorely lacking, as the NYPD's priorities are severely out of whack. To whit: In February, the 78th Precinct gave out 80 tickets for running red lights ("Fail to stop on signal), and 16 for speeding. http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/traffic_data/078sum.pdf 16 tickets for speeding? In a month? For the entire precinct? Clearly, finding the Park Slope rapist has their attention. Oh wait, they haven't done that either. Somehow, it must be the fault of the bicyclists. Clearly.
Chris Mcnally April 24, 2012 at 10:30 PM
you can slow traffic down by just narrowing the street, which is what double parked cars do. On a wide street such as St Marks in Crown Heights there is angled parking and it does not slow down cars. A row of large trees would be better protection for Pedestrians than parked cars.

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